Matt DiBara joins the passive cash flow podcast to explain what he has learned from quoting over 4,500 contracting jobs in his career. Construction is one of the most complicated and costly parts of real estate investing. If you don’t hire and manage the right contractor from the start, you can end up spending countless money and tie fixing problems. Trust us, we learned this the hard way. Matt DiBara uses his years of experience to explain how to find the best contractors, how to get the best contractors to work for you and how to manage a project to completion so it remains on budget and schedule. Learn the tricks of the trade in one of the hardest trades in real estate.

Matt DiBara, Owner of DiBara Masonry, poured his first bag of concrete at age 9. He’s been on over 4500 appointments, and he knows exactly what to look for when hiring a contractor.

DiBara Masonry is a 4th Generation Construction company, they placed 2nd in the Country in a Brick Laying Competition, and they set the standard for ethical and transparent contracting.

You can learn more about Matt and order his book at

0:00 Intro

2:15 Undercover contractor

4:39 Tips for finding the right contractors

10:47 15 years of work

13:42 Other ways to recognize a good/bad contract

17:25 Thoughts on hiring hourly contractors

26:18 How to find a good contractor

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Matt: Here’s the thing, a lot of good contractors don’t advertise. Some of the best people– I work with a landscape designer in Los Angeles. This guy he’s cheap, he’s fast, he’s phenomenal. Guess what? If you searched on Google for a half an hour and I gave you his name, you wouldn’t find him. He does 90% of our design work. That’s what’s wrong or that’s one of the areas, the biggest voids you’re referring to in this industry is how do you find them.

The only way I could figure it out was to take our proprietary method and offer that as a service where we, hopefully, by front-loading that the rest of the process becomes much easier because you’ve got the right person doing the right job.


Aaron: All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Passive Cashflow podcast. I’m your host, Aaron Fragnito. We are here with an amazing guest, Matt DiBara, with Undercover Contractor. How are you doing today Matt?

Matt: How’s it going, Aaron? I’m excited.

Aaron: I’m excited too my friend, absolutely. We just got about a foot and a half of snow here. As you’re saying, you’re from Boston so you’re pretty familiar with the snow. It doesn’t scare you, right?

Matt: Not at all, but it’s nice to be in Los Angeles. Let me tell you.

Aaron: Yes, it’s warm there. I bet, right?

Matt: Yes. It’s nice to see the snow in a picture.

Aaron: [laughs] It does look beautiful, I got to say. It looks very beautiful. I’d love to ski it right now, actually. In fact, we’re busy working here. We’re going to talk about Undercover Contractor. Now, Matt, the reason I wanted to have you on the show here is because working with contractors I say is the hardest part of this business. You could find deals if you put enough money and time into marketing and looking at deals.

You can raise capital if you build those relationships and have a good track record, the money comes but the hardest part, in my opinion, is construction, is contractors, is working with reliable contractors, deciding, finding out if they’re reliable, which unfortunately it could be very expensive lessons sometimes. I’ve learned that the hard way. I really want to have you on to figure out how to hire the right contractors.

Again, for our listeners, this is the Passive Cashflow, sponsored by People’s Capital Group. You go to, Learn more about our company there. Well, Matt, talk a little about Undercover Contractor and why you started this business.

Matt: I started the business. I grew up in construction. My dad owned– My great-grandfathers did masonry and concrete. My grandfather, my father, ongoing to me. I came at this from a totally different angle. I grew up in the field, and my first day in the field I was nine. I had too much energy in the house and my dad was like, “Let me take him to work. Let’s get him although he’s young.”

My mom was like, “No, he’s too young, he’s fragile.” Well after one summer of me in the house causing all kinds of trouble, she was like, “Take him.” My dad was like, “All right, see, I told you.” That was my first day in the field. I’ve loved it ever since. What I noticed and we went back and figured this out when I started writing the book, The Undercover Contractor. How to find, vet, hire and manage contractors. I started writing that, I’ve been on 4,500 sales appointments in my life.

Just the depth of which I understand both the homeowner, real estate investor, the purchasing side of it, as well as the contracting side of it. I realized, I was like, “Look, I have this really awesome masonry and concrete company in Los Angeles. I love it, we do amazing things, but my true passion is helping the real estate investors and homeowners to be able to navigate this process because it’s just grueling.”

If you don’t know exactly what you’re doing and you don’t know all the ins and outs that I know, how to being on the inside. That’s why I titled the book, The Undercover Contractor, because I know all the dirty secrets. I know all the things that– Tricks and tips they like to pull and I’m giving it to you. I want to give it to you and real estate investors, real estate agents, homeowners to save you guys thousands of dollars and help you avoid all the scams and BS.

Aaron: No, absolutely. It’s amazing what it takes to become a contractor. It’s really hard to get an electrician’s license or a plumber’s license. It’s extremely hard to get that, but then I feel like the bar for an initial a handyman or home contractor at least like in Vermont, for example, there’s no license you can get for a general home contractor, doesn’t even exist. I have one of my guys and he’s like, “There’s no license I can technically get as a general contractor.”

Obviously, plumbers, even HVAC techs, there’s a whole licensing system there, but for general contractors, there’s really not a lot of times. At least it’s not all that tough to get that. What are some of your good tips for finding the right contractors?

Matt: I’ve got a million of them. I cover a lot of it in the book, but quick things that I think pack a big punch. One of the biggest scams I see is what I call paper contracting. I’ll explain what that means and why I think it’s really, really important for this audience. A lot of times you start with a general contractor because you’re like, “I got to remodel my bathroom. I want to do new irrigation. I got all these, seven or eight different things.”

You call a general contractor. Well, a couple of things to know about a general contractor, first, they’re not like a lawyer or a doctor. I make this analogy all the time. A general contractor in most states is somebody who had a relevant experience. Maybe they worked for their uncle who was licensed or had a friend who said, “Hey, you worked with me for X amount of years. You’ve got this experience,” and took a test.

Most general contractors who have really nice– I shouldn’t say most, but a lot that I’ve seen that are involved in unpleasant situations, don’t have an office, own a pick-up truck. There’s no assets. They wear a nice branded shirt, and the external appearance looks great. If they don’t own a wheelbarrow, or shovel, or even have a home office. It’s very misleading in the industry, so I call them paper contractors because on paper or showing up, they look great, but then behind the scenes, it’s like– I’ll give you an example.

I did a project in Los Angeles and I won’t name any names or anything, but I think it’s a helpful example. A big 25 unit condo is going up from the ground up and we’re working. I find out, I’m going through the plans, the guy pulls me aside, he was like, “Look, I got to be honest with you, Matt.” He was like, “This is my first project. I just got my license, so if you could help me run through this, this would be great with the mainstreaming copy scope.” I’m like, “What’s? You’re not a– This is a $10, $15 million construction loan. The land is another, $8 million, and you’re like–?” He was like, “Yes, I know, through a connection I got–” I’m like, “This is crazy to me. How did you represent this?”

The takeaway tips, quick tips is understand and do the research onto the general contractor, who they are? What they have? What they’ve done? The most important thing though, and this is a million dollar chip. Most important thing is understand what a general contractor means. What I mean by that is a general contractor is not doing work in most cases. They’re licensed to manage other traits. The smart thing to do that I teach. One of the things in the book is to actually ask who are the licensed contractors that you’re using? You get a quote from a general contractor he’s in his cabinets, he, or she cabinets 10 grand exteriors, landscaping this. You say, “Okay great.” Right before you get ready to sign, you say, “I just want to know the license number and company name of every contractor you’re going to use.”

Because most people sometimes– I’ve been on job sites where they hire their son or daughter. You know what I mean, to do the landscaping. It’s like, “What’s? I thought I was getting a licensed landscaper who has taken a test and understands this industry and instead I’m getting your son who’s working in college, never planted three plants his whole life.” That’s a huge, huge tip to make sure you’re getting licensed entities.

Aaron: Licensed and insured and that we like to get the subcontractors even put on to– We get additionally insured on their insurance. That’s something that is hard. When you go to a contractor, you ask them to put them on your insurance. If you’re doing a large project and as an additional insured entity. Now, just because the general contractor has you on their insurance as additional insured entity doesn’t mean the subs do.

They may cover you or may not. We like to have the subs. Also, we like to be on their insurance as well, make sure they have insurance. A lot of times I’m amazed by general contractors who aren’t sure who they’re going to hire for the job. They’re just assuming they can get a sub to do it for that price. That’s always interesting as well [laughs].

Matt: Yes, that’s a wild one. I think another hot tip that I talk about, that I find is an area where there’s a lot of issues arise is I give the example. When I did the book and when I’m talking to clients, especially in the real estate world, it’s like a lot of times people like referrals. It’s like, “This guy, he referred me to so and so or whatever.” What you want to understand is a lot of contractors have– Think of it like a restaurant, they got a big menu. They got a lot of services.

I love giving this analogy. Imagine you’re going to a restaurant and they have a big menu, but you order something off the menu that that chef has made for the first time this year. It’s not something he’s cooking twice, three, four, five, six times a day. It’s something that he’s made first time that year, but he hasn’t done it in 347 days.

That’s how contracting works. When you have these big menu items and services, you want to understand, is this the service that they really don’t do very often or is it’s their core service that they’re doing day in and day out? Because just because it’s on the menu, doesn’t mean it’s their best serve, best prepared dish.

I think that’s a really powerful tip to understand, because I see that with referrals all the time. It’s like, “Well, he polished my concrete floors, so I used him to install new concrete,” but if his 90% of his business is polishing and 10% is installing concrete, do you really want the 10% of the business or do you want to find a company where that’s the opposite?

Aaron: Well, a good contractor will know their limitations and tell you their limitations. Whenever a contractor says, “No, that’s out of my paygrade,” or, “I’m not that great at that. I haven’t done it a lot.” I actually hire the guy usually on the spot, because I’m like, “Great, you know what you’re good at, you know what you’re not good at.” When you tell someone you’re good at one thing but you’re not good at another then they believe you when you say you’re good at something. If you ever met someone who thinks they’re good at everything, then they’re really good at nothing. In fact, they’re probably just egotistical jerk, but [laughs] for the most part, you got to know your limitations as a business owner, a contractor. Anyone you’re hiring and working with. That’s great stuff.

You got started in age nine. Now, you said you’ve been on 4,500 estimates, and I was just thinking to myself, that means you had to drive to 4,500 people, sit in their kitchen and talk to them about what it’s going to cost to do a renovation. Holy mackerel, so you did that for 15 years or something. Tell us a little bit about that.

Matt: Yes, I’ve been doing it. My dad used to bring me on quotes when I was a kid. Every weekend, Saturdays and Sundays. We hit six, seven, eight, appointments. I was the kid pulling the tape measure. We actually went back, and we had to look up. I was like, “How many have I actually been on?” We looked at the data, and it was just gray. We figured out and I obviously counted anything that was gray. I was like, “Don’t even put it in.” It’s probably a lot more than that, but those are the ones that I could literally look at my Google Calendar, and also look back and know, in certain summers how many weekends I went on. It’s crazy, and you hear all these stories of what went well, what didn’t go well, and why. I think that’s really important, but what’s most important is from a perspective, we never started off in contracting.

I think that’s what you touched on something that I think is important. What you said is what I refer to as an ethical contractor and I think that’s the dilemma in construction. When you said a contractor says, “That’s above my paygrade,” or, “I’m not an expert,” I call that ethical contract. That’s what I’m looking to bring back to the industry. I want confident homeowners or real estate investors and I want ethical contractors. I want to be the conduit to the bridge between those two things, but what you said there, that’s the ethical contractor because what they’re ultimately doing is they’re passing up on income. Because you’re like, “Hey, do you do floors?” The thought process is, “Hey, there’s more money I can make here. Now I have an ethical choice. Do I tell them the truth and say, I’ve done one floor in the last six years or do I say, Yes, yes, I do those. Those are good. I’ve got a guy. Yes, no problem.” That’s an ethical choice. I love that you brought that up because that’s really one of the big pillars that I’m trying to restore in this industry is ethics. Do what you say, mean what you say, and be honest and transparent.

Aaron: That’s 100% true. Also, when you’re interviewing a contractor, do they show up on time? Do they get you the quote they said they’re going to get you or does it take you three more phone calls and two more weeks and a bunch of text reminding them to send you the document? What is that, with contractors and paperwork? It’s two completely different things. If you’re going to install a hardwood floor and get your hands dirty, and you’re good at that into the business, you maybe aren’t great at the spreadsheet, bookkeeping, accounting estimate end of it.

I always thought a good business would be– I think they do exist to help those small contractors run their business like a back office for contractors. What are some other ways just right off the bat for people to recognize a good and a bad contractor or some other red flags you might suggest?

Matt: Yes, literally, I have that in the book which will finish it up. One thing to understand because I think this will answer the question in a more direct way. When a contractor is meeting with clients, they get home and they’re tired. It’s been a long day, and they prioritize. Which jobs am I going to make money on? I teach in the book, how do you appear to be a highly closable in a good way. Because if you like that contractor, you want them to like and want and prioritize your business. What I teach is I teach how do you take real estate in their mind? No pun intended. Where they come home after a long day’s work, and it’s 6:00 PM and they’re like, “I’ve got nine quotes I need to write and I only can get two out.” How do you make sure you’re one of the two?

How do you avoid saying things and doing things and be like, “This person is never going to go do business with me.” They’ll go out on Sunday, like a Monday. That’s the Sunday after I spend time with the family, but I got to get these two are the most closable. That’s what I love about what I feel I bring to this whole conversation is I know the back end. I think you said, some quick tangible things. You want a clear concise contract. You want somebody who’s never understood or seen or knows your project to read it and tell you what it is that you’re going to have done. That’s one of the easiest tests I get. It’s so simple. You say, “Hey, look, I got somebody doing cabinets. Read this and tell me what you understand.” If they can’t do that you know there’s a problem because if you end up in court or litigation, that’s pretty much the litmus test they use.

That’s one thing. Another thing is a project schedule. I call it the north star in the book. The project schedule is really, really important because it sets a standard where there’s no tension. Because a lot of times contractors are like, “Well, I didn’t say next. When I said Sunday, I meant next Sunday.” You’re like, “No, you didn’t. You meant this Sunday.” “No, I meant next Sunday. You weren’t listening.” You’re arguing and it doesn’t have to be that hard. I teach how to front-load. A lot of the confident homeowner system is about front-loading the process so that you’re not– Because if you can do the proper things, the things that I teach in the beginning of the interaction, the rest of it, the hiring phase, which is signing the contract with the management phase becomes much more simplified. It’s like we’ve all relate to the example because we’ve all either interviewed somebody or have been interviewed and it’s like, you ever sit in the chair and you realize either as being hired or the hiree, that you’re like, “I’m probably not right for this job, but I’m here and I invested all this time so I’m still going to give it a shot.”

I call that the square peg in the round hole, right. We want to avoid that in contracting, and so by front-loading our research, by front-loading or looking like a highly closable client by certain communications that I teach, you can do these things, and then when you become a priority in the contractor’s mind, because that’s what happens, they get overwhelmed. That’s really what we’re talking about, is contractor overwhelmed.

Aaron: I like to have the schedule right on there and I like to have a payment schedule right on there, and usually what I do is I say, if it’s a very complex job, we’ll have dates for each part of the project, but normally I’ll say the project has to be completed by this date, and when the framing is up, we’re going to give you this amount, when the drywall is up, we’ll give you this amount when this is done. Pay as you go. Now, I’ve also had contractors that convinced me to work on an hourly basis, telling me I have the chance to save money, ended up costing me probably another $4,000 just so because surprise, surprise, the job took longer than they thought, and the estimate they gave me was low. What are your thoughts on hiring contractors on an hourly basis?

Matt: Hourly basis? Typically, I don’t. There’s certain types of projects where an hourly might make sense, but still you want to tie the hourly to a lump sum, and then the reason I say that is because of a contractor predicts. Whenever I advise on an hourly, let’s say it’s $50 an hour to use simple numbers. Contractor is like, “You’ll save money if you do hourly.” Well, the conversation should be this. Well, what would it be if I did lump sum or I did [unintelligible 00:17:55]? What do you expect it would be if I do hourly? That’s probably seven. “Okay, great. Let’s put that in an email. I don’t need it in the contract, but I want it in an email.” See, these are the things I teach because it’s like, if you have a contract, you put too many things in a contract, there all of a sudden going to get leery and worried. Whereas an email will suffice as some level of documentation, but still keep them not overly guarded. Because here’s the other side of it, some homeowners aren’t great either, and I have to acknowledge that. There are some people that take advantage of good contractors.

You’re in this really funky world where you got good contractors that have been taken by some not so great homeowners or real estate investors. It’s like, how do we navigate the true situation here which is contractors are guarded too, the good ones, especially. I know, me in Los Angeles, my masonry and concrete company, we’re very careful who we work with and what projects we take on.

I think that’s important is to have an email where it says, this is how much your hourly should add up to. The reason I say that is because when you’re 20% in on the project, it should align with 20% of the total. If you don’t see that correlation, you can catch it. My whole philosophy is, how do we catch things slipping before they’re so far in? You’re like, “Wait a minute, this was supposed to be $10,000, I spent $11,000.” Not saying this is you but I’m saying I hear these stories, and it’s like, “Well, wouldn’t it be great if you caught that after you spent $1,000?”

Aaron: What do you do if the contractor says well, “I only work on an hourly basis. I don’t do project basis?”

Matt: I would do exactly what I said. I would say, “Great. We’ll contract you hourly. What do you anticipate the total hourly would be? I need a rough range, and then I would say go no more than 10 or 15% and have things measured that way.

Aaron: That’s great advice. I like that. That’s good. That’s good. Have you ever had a contractor sign lien waivers when you’re giving them large payments? You’re familiar with that?

Matt: Of course, all the time. We do commercial work. We do public work. Any type of paperwork, anytime we’ve been around it, done it, seen it. The lien waivers are good. I think that they’re important. I think that it’s– We talked about that in the book. It’s just all about delivery. That’s the big thing is if you deliver things in the right way, at the right interval in the conversation like, “Hey, look, by the way, I just want to make sure I’ve had a bad experience before. Are you open to doing lien waivers? It’s beneficial for both of us.” I have some clients who have reached up quotes and like, “Well, I’ve been on–” They’re just like this energy of they’re so worried to do business with us.

That sets the wrong tone for a good working relationship because contracting we have to remember it, it’s a hard industry, in the sense that you’re dealing with inspectors, you’re dealing with suppliers. We take the brunt of all of these other elements too. We don’t know how long things will take. A lot of the rehab work is all about discovery and change orders. There’s another side of it when you commit to a schedule and you’re like, “Great, but what about the weather? What about my suppliers?” How do you navigate all that? That’s what someone would go over.

Aaron: Construction, when I first started flipping houses and doing construction, I would always say, “What am I doing wrong? Why are they always over budget? Why are there always change orders? Why are they always taking longer than I thought they’d take? Why is the town so difficult to deal with and why does my architect not return my call for three days?” There’s so many frustrating parts of the project learning that the business. I think after doing dozens and dozens of projects, I think it’s part of the business. Change orders, delays. It’s almost like it’s constant.

Matt: It is. My goal is for that not to be a case. I’ll give her another really hot tip. One of the things that I like to do is, there may be certain companies that are very knowledgeable on the quoting process, but they might not be the right company you want to deal with for the project. What I like to do is if you’re on what I call a high-risk project, meaning there’s a high likelihood that you might have change orders so there’s discovery. Like you’re remodeling a room and it’s an older house there is asbestos or horsehair plaster, there’s always some things you can discover.

What I like to say is this, during the quoting process ask contractors, “What are some areas where you think the price might increase? What are a few areas where you think I might have some change order? I need to give a comprehensive budget.”This is the wording I teach. Look, I don’t want to run out of money on this project. I want to make sure it’s good for you and good for me. You’re letting them know, right away, “Look, I’m not an open vault.” They’re not so ethical ones. I like [unintelligible 00:22:32] we’re not ethical. As opposed to, some of the harsher terms I might use in the book.

The non-ethical ones, they’re looking at some clients are like an ATM. By saying that, you’re letting them know, “I’m not an ATM. The budget doesn’t run forever.” You’re doing two things there. I’m not an ATM and tell me what you think might go wrong. If they say nothing? Great. Can you confirm that in an email for me because I just want to make sure. Now you’ve got the first thing that happens, and you’ve got [unintelligible 00:23:00] nothing going to go wrong. Northstar approach. You got something to refer back to.

Aaron: How about initial payments getting started. You’re working with a new contractor. Let’s say you’re doing a big job, $100,000 job. “I need $20,000 upfront for materials and $20,000 to start working or I don’t show up.” What’s a fair amount to start a project.

Matt: Here’s what I do with my mainstream concrete company, the [unintelligible 00:23:24] in Los Angeles. We typically take $0 down, on most cases, $0. We don’t take money until we’ve shown up with our crews and start to work. Now, the caveat to that is if there’s a special order material that I have to have pre-ordered and delivered to my yard, then I may require something, but typically, it’s close to the amount of the material. That’s it.

I really don’t advocate for big down payments on projects. I would rather do more progress based payments where it’s like, “Okay, great, what are the materials that you’re getting delivered? How much are they? Send me the receipt now. Give me the order and the invoice and I’ll cover you for that.” I push for my homeowners and real estate investors and real estate agents to really, really push back on that one because that once it’s like an arm-wrestling match and if you’ve ever arm wrestle anybody, there’s this wrist move that people can make, like my friend would do this. A buddy of mine who win all kinds of money at bars because he did this thing and then he could like– It’s that leverage. I feel like the big down payments reminds me of what my friend would do at these arm-wrestling matches where he would turn his wrist and it was like that and then he could just– It was like he was toying with you. That’s the heavy down payment. You lose all your fairness, your equality because now they got $20,000 and you see no material and it’s like, “This is not the place you necessarily always want to be.”

Aaron: I always get a bad feeling when they want a lot of upfront. Then, “By the way, I’m going to work on three other projects while I work on yours so I may or may not show up.” That’s always a nice one.

Matt: Uninterrupted construction, that’s one of the things I teach in the book. Always put that in the contract. I want uninterrupted construction. I want a dedicated foreman on the job that’s going to be, “I want to know who’s the point person and who I call if something is behind schedule or something goes wrong.”

Aaron: Matt, how can people find your book?

Matt: We’re still putting the final touches on it but the, you’ll get some of the videos that we’re recording on the top scams and I’ve got a lot of cool stuff there. YouTube series and podcast is coming out in probably another two to three months.

Aaron: Very cool. Very cool. Do you do coaching or anything like that or what are your main services that you offer?

Matt: The competent homeowner system is something where we’ll actually have a done for you service. If you want to use the framework we’ve created, we’ll find in that contract is for you and give you a pre-screen list. We have a contract review service, and then we have a management service where we’ll help you actually manage them. That’s a sneak peek of something we have launching in the next three months, give or take. I do coaching as well for certain projects if they’re big enough size because I know all the tricks. I know what the general contractors leave out and things like that. I have a lot of clients that will help us do a second review. There’s a lot of that. Anything in this industry I’m passionate about it if I can help, I’ll find a way to do that.

Aaron: That’s great, because my final question was, how do you find a good contract? I’ve been on HomeAdvisor. I’ve been on a bunch of websites. A lot of times I call contractors on HomeAdvisor, they’re like, “I know, I don’t do that area.” We’re like, “Yes, but at HomeAdvisor says you do.” Like, “No. Never been there in my life.” Great, another waste of time. That’s part of your service, you help line people up with the right contractors in the area.

Matt: Yes. We have a [unintelligible 00:26:42] service where basically– Confident homeowner system it’s predominately for real estate. I got a lot of real estate. A lot of real estate investors. The same core beliefs, but somebody– In real estate, you own the home. You’re a homeowner, someone who owns a home but it’s finding that hiring managers is the system that I teach.

What you’re talking about is the finding that portion where we’ll take our criteria, because here’s the thing, a lot of good contractors don’t advertise. Some of the best people I work with a landscape designer in Los Angeles, this guy he’s cheap, he’s fast, he’s phenomenal. Guess what? If you searched on Google for a half an hour, and I gave you his name, you wouldn’t find him but he does 90% of our design work. That’s what’s wrong or that’s one of the areas the biggest voids you’re referring to in this industry is, how do you find them? The only way I could figure it out was to take our proprietary method and offer that as a service where we, hopefully, by front-loading that, the rest of the process becomes much easier because you’ve got the right person doing the right job.

Aaron: Well, good contractors have so much business word of mouth. They don’t need to advertise. The best guys I know say, “I got my number on the truck. I’ve been doing this 15 years. I got enough people I’ve pleased that the phone rings off the hook and I’ve turn to down business.”

Matt: How do we get someone like you or a real estate investor to call up and what do you say to become a priority, or be treated like a family member or referral? Those are the things I teach in the book, because it’s like, when you know that, you’ve got the golden ticket, because when you have the right contractor, and they’re out there, they’re hard to find, but they’re out there, gosh, construction becomes so easy change orders and contract issues and delays and scheduling and stress. It’s just like, they show up. You have coffee together. You walk through. It’s beautiful. You pay them. It’s a beautiful thing when it works well.

Aaron: I love paying my contractors. I love the getting the job done. I love the way it looks. I love the way it smells, the way it sounds. Construction is awesome. especially like heavy machinery. That stuff’s really cool. Boy, is it part of the business where you can lose money very fast, you can pull your hair out and lose a lot hours of sleep as well. We both know that I’m sure. That’s great, Matt. How can people reach you again?

Matt: The, it’s got a direct phone number there. You got an email address, you can reach out if you have any questions. You ever want to review a contract, you have a launch, officially, but we still do it on the consulting side. Anything we can help but just reach out to us and I’ll let you know the best way.

Aaron: That’s awesome. I’m going to check that out because it’s a tough business construction. It’s one of really the most difficult, most frustrating things in the business. I always say that the less you’re swinging hammers, the more likely you are to make a profit in real estate. By working with someone like you, though, perhaps you can get over their fear of construction and working with new contractors and taking on bigger projects.

Matt: That’s the goal. I’m sick of and it’s not– It kills me when you have real estate agents and investors that are like, “I’ll leave this like this. I’ll take the credit on the sale.” I’m like, “What?” I’ve clients they’re like, “I’ll just take the [unintelligible 00:29:50]. It’s a $10,000 investment. It’s going to net you an extra 30 grand. I don’t want to deal with the hassle.” I’m like, “This is the huge problem,” and I feel like that that’s my passion is to solve that. It should be fun, enjoyable. It should be predictable. I come from a different world of construction. My family, four generations in the industry. I knew it in the golden age. Those stories and that ethos that have been passed down, I’m restoring that now. I want to see that come back.

Aaron: I appreciate it, man. I really like that. I really like that attitude. That’s great. That’s great. Excellent stuff. Thanks for coming on here on the Passive Cash Flow Podcast. We covered a lot of information here about contractors, hiring contractors, vetting them, paying them, payment schedules. Again, you can visit Matt at You can learn more about his company and what his services are.

You can learn more about People’s Capital Group at where we buy apartment buildings and short-term rentals with passive investors. Maybe use about 10 years with a nice portfolio, a nice system where people can get to invest in the real estate. Get the benefits of real estate without doing all the heavy lifting, swinging all the hammers, dealing with the contractors, hiring them, working out payment schedules. If you are in that side of business, where should they go, Matt?

Matt: The

Aaron: Absolutely. Thank you, listeners. Have a good day.

Aaron Fragnito

Aaron Fragnito

Aaron has been helping people invest in Real Estate for over 10 years. He is a Co-Founder of Peoples Capital Group (PCG) a real estate investment and holding company. He is a full time real estate investor, as well as, the host of the New Jersey Real Estate Network and host of the Passive Cash Flow Podcast. Aaron has previously completed over 100 real estate transactions as a realtor and another 150 transactions in his current role as a real estate investor.

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