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What is the best way to simplify Self-directed IRA


Do you want the process of self-directing your IRA to be fast, easy and affordable? In this episode, Aaron Fragnito sits down with James Jones from ALTO IRA. This IRA Custodian is making it easier than ever to self-direct your IRA into alternative investments such as real estate. Not all IRA custodians are created equal or charge the same fees. Listen in to learn new rules politicians are proposing to limit your SDIRA capabilities, advancements in the space, and how ALTO IRA is making it easier than ever to self-direct your IRA or solo 401k into alternative investments.


James A. Jones is a CEO, Advisor, 3X Founder and Angel Investor whose focus is helping companies raise capital by accessing the $28 Trillion retirement industry. Creator of the “Crowd IRA”, James has partnered with Alto IRA, the industry’s first and only Digital IRA offering seamless integration to Deal Sponsors and Investment Platforms with Registered Investment Advisors and Retail Investors.


Since the inception of the crowdfinance industry, James has pioneered Self-Directed IRA’s, changing the industry model from a retail B2C to a B2B2C Partner Approach to scale retail investor participation and bring the democratization of Wall Street to the everyday investor. He has worked with over 200 Capital Raising Platforms and opened over 25,000 retail IRA accounts. Jones has collaborated extensively with some of the leading crowdfinance experts to offer education via webinars, speaking engagements, articles and whitepapers in the financial industry premier publications, and includes 3 bestselling Amazon e-books on Self-Directed IRA’s.

www.altoira.com

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https://www.peoplescapitalgroup.com/


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00:00 ALTO IRA Explains How they Simplified SDIRAs

01:11 How is Alto different?

05:52 Other IRA Custodians

10:22 The cost of Alto

14:42 Awakening

21:19 Government overreach

27:48 IRS

33:57 Contact James at AltoIRA.com

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James Jones: If you're a self-directed IRA investor and you might be investing with more than just your own IRA, you may have other partners, you might be investing in multiple assets and you might have multiple streams of income coming in and money is needing to go out to pay for different real estate taxes and repairs and things like that. A self-directed IRA would be absolutely impossible. What you can do is create an LLC.


[music]


Aaron Fragnito: All right, ladies and gentlemen, it's Aaron Fragnito here with another episode of the Passive Cashflow Podcast. We're here with a great guest. We're with James Jones. How are we doing today, James?


James: Good. I'm great, Aaron. Thank you for having me. How are you?


Aaron: Oh, very well. Very well, my friend. James, I wanted to have you on the show here because you work with Alto IRA and Alto IRA, in my opinion, is really changing the game a little bit. Changing the space in innovative ways with self-directing your IRA. I want to just introduce Alto to our guests, introduce you as well, but how does Alto differ from other IRA custodians?


James: Well, great. Again, thank you. Very innovative. They really were the first custodian to embrace this entire change in what we call fintech. It's applying technology to financial service companies. The self-directed IRA industry is a 45-year-old industry. Not something new, but the underlying accounting and administrative platforms were based on decades-old technology. Alto came along and saw the friction points. What were the challenges to completing a transaction in this new online investing platforms? They built up a platform from scratch that really, again, embraces technology using different API touchpoints.


Aaron: No, and that's amazing. I work with so many different IRA custodians and it is amazing. They all do the same thing at the end of the day, but they do it very different ways. Some of them need to read through the whole operating agreement and every single document and approve it, and then it takes like seven business days to come back to you and they're like, "Oh, by the way, you missed a comma here. We'll need to review for seven more days once you send back the fixed version with the comma."


I'm just like, "This does not make sense." What I liked about Alto IRA is it seems like you guys have found a way to speed up that process. Walk me through it. I'm someone who's looking to use an IRA, let's say it's with Fidelity and it's riding the stock market. I'm like, you know what? I want to take a third of my IRA, and I want to put it into professionally managed real estate with Peoples Capital Group, because I've been watching their podcasts and that host is so handsome and so energetic and trustworthy. I feel like I want to invest with Peoples Capital Group. That's what most people are saying, I hear on the street.


James: [unintelligible 00:03:05].


Aaron: Thank you. How would they go about doing that exactly?


James: The first point you make is really interesting. Traditionally the average retail investor is 99.9% invested in public security, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, and ETFs, and what we've seen over the last five, six years, finally, thanks to the Jobs Act and the new ways to raise capital through regulation A+ DCF, is now we're seeing customer portfolios increase 5% to 10% in some cases, as much as 25% to 30% investing in alternatives, because in essence, that's the reality and the makeup of institutional portfolios. Private equity firms, family offices, institutional investors on average have about a third of their portfolio. As a retail investor how do you do it? There are three steps and I'll outlay them, and it's really about an 8 to 10-minute process.


Aaron: Wow.


James: Period. The first is opening the account. You would go to Alto IRA, you would put in your name and the email address. That begins the mechanism for opening an account. Instantaneously you'll come back, fill in your address, your date of birth, and Social Security number, about five clicks complete, and you're done. The account is open literally in about two minutes.


Aaron: That's amazing.


James: Two is then funding the account right by initiating a transfer from a resigning custodian. You would just simply check on the box, dropdown, it's coming from Fidelity, Schwab, E-Trade, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, et cetera. You click that button. You put the amount that you want to come over. You upload your latest statement, bang, that transfer process is in place and Alto is the only custodian that actually is able to pick up and take on the responsibility of completing that transaction.


Then number three, here's the really neat spot, when somebody is investing on the Alto platform, they've already are working with one of our assigned partners. The deal sponsor documents are already uploaded into the system. They just simply click on the deal sponsor, they sign any subscription agreements, PPMs, et cetera, with the digital signature, done. That is about a total 16 click process which takes again about eight minutes. In order for that actual transaction to take place, we've done it you're just moving cash over in three to four days as opposed to three to four months.


Aaron: Yes, that's incredible. I've worked with some IRA custodians who I won't mention here, but they've taken over 30 days to open an account, fund the account, move it into an investment. They'll take a week and a half just to get back to your email, and again, it'll be like one little thing and there'll be another week and a half for them to be like, "Oh, good work putting that comma in. You're now approved." What's funny too is the IRA custodians that are reviewing all these documents so closely, they also don't catch things all the time, either.


In one time there was a little term that needed to be changed in an operating agreement, but another IRA custodian totally missed it after like seven business days reviewing the document. I'm like, "You guys don't even really review the documents that well." I really actually liked the process when you're self-directing your IRA, being able to review the documents yourself, click through the process, open the account in 10 minutes, fund the account in another 10 minutes, that's much faster than what I've seen. Most of these companies are having you fill out paperwork.


You got to sign it, scan it in, send it back. It's not even done through DocuSign. It is amazing. You're all online and that's why I want to have James here come on with Alto and talk about this because I've worked with probably a dozen custodians, and I'd say you guys are definitely the easiest, the fastest. Let's be honest right now, time is money. You look at these cryptocurrency markets, you look at all these markets. You think, "Oh my God. If I got in 90 days ago, I would have made $30,000." Whatever it is. "I would've made another 100% on my money or something." If you're trying to get an alternative investment, for example, we're buying a building right now.


We had a bunch of investors riding on the deal, and then some of them missed out because they waited too long. They just didn't take action in time and sign the documents, they move the capital. Now they missed out on the opportunity. Hopefully, we'll have another one in the future, but time is money. If you're not moving your money fast these days, then you're losing money because inflation is skyrocketing. The longer it sits in an account not riding with the markets, the longer you're going to lose money. That's why this is important as well, and [inaudible 00:08:06] they're not having a headache of--


James: To touch on that very quickly. This is a interesting business school case study. Really the whole reason behind this is that this industry that was started really in 1974, when IRAs were created, this is not something new. This is just an IRS provision that allows you to go to a IRA custodian to invest in alternative assets, but that was really a business to consumer model. In fact, it's really a one-off. You would go to a local RIA meeting, find out that you could be a hard money lender, then you would go find a self-directed IRA custodian, and you would do a one-off transaction.


That is how the whole platform for accounting administration was built and set up for one-offs. Now when we're in this online enviroment, and we're working with a B to B to C environment with a deal sponsor, such as yourself, we need speed and execution. The entire system was not built for this model of a custodian working and partnering with deal sponsors such as yourself. That's really the business model has changed from a B to C to a B to B.


Aaron: Yes, and as an operator, I love it. I can upload my documents right to your file there right online. I did that, it took me about 10 minutes. I have all the documents ready to go, offering memorandum, operating agreement, the LLC information, and now investors can go right on Alto IRA, look up all the information, decide if it's a good investment for their investment goals, and proceed right there. It's [inaudible 00:09:48] . A lot of times as the operator, I'm emailing back and forth to the IRA custodian, again, they don't respond to emails for days. I maybe have to email in two or three times. Often just email a general info at email box and you're getting a different person responding every time who doesn't really know where the account's at.


It can be very frustrating working with IRA custodians. I've even been to the point where we just close and we're like, "Just send the money when you can get your act together and send the money, IRA custodian." That's always frustrating. I also want to talk about the cost involved self-directing your IRA. Is Alto more expensive than your average IRA custodian, all these luxuries here? What are we looking at to start [inaudible 00:10:31]?


James: Again, this is an interesting business case study, if you will but it's really pretty simple and that technology allows for a reduction in costs because of reduction in friction points, meaning you don't need as many people behind the scenes running around doing things manually. The average self-directed IRA custodian has an annual fee of about $300 per asset per year, $100 to open the account, $100 for each and every transaction. If you take an average self-directed IRA portfolio of three assets, you're looking at about somewhere just shy of $2,000 per year. Let's take a portfolio of $10,000 that's spinning off 10% return, you're making $1,000 and spending $2,000 in fees. It doesn't work.


The reason that 1% to 2% of IRAs of the 50 million IRAs in the United States up into the last few years utilized self-directed IRAs because it was not cost-effective. This is after technology and the ability to have a good customer journey and experience. The second issue is price. The price becomes prohibitive in most cases under a portfolio of about $50,000. When we're seeing a lot of deal sponsors now coming into the market and allowing investors to start at $500,000 to invest, it just doesn't work. Our technology has enabled us to offer a flat $100 fee per year on a monthly subscription basis period and that's it. That can be 1 asset, 3 assets, 10 assets, 50 assets, $100 flat fee. If you're on our platform as a deal sponsor, there's a $10 transaction fee. Now, $1,000, $2,000 investment across three assets, absolutely makes economic sense.


Aaron: Sure. You're saying I could self-direct a million dollars in the Alto IRA and only pay $100 fee?


James: Correct.


Aaron: Wow, that's really incredible. You're talking 1% one, that's a steep fee. I remember when [unintelligible 00:12:58] IRAs companies would charge that. [unintelligible 00:13:00] the space was just getting started, they could charge that. Now, if that's your business model, good luck. It's a much more competitive space which is good for the consumer. The cost to self-directed IRAs come down which will allow more people to do that. We've seen anything in the last couple years or so, the stock market, I don't know, it seems a little rigged. We look at some of these stocks that going up and you look at what the companies are actually doing and you're just scratching your head, and then you have these meme stocks where they're just basically playing games.


It's like the big elites versus us small guys, putting our self-directed IRA in. There's really a war brewing in a way, you can call it that or just a division maybe of the elites with their big Fortune 500 companies and their BlackRock and all their capital behind them who've been moving and controlling the markets for years and calling the shots, it seems like the little guy's getting his say again by being able to self-direct your IRA, pick out what you want to invest in, maybe it's real estate, maybe it's cryptocurrency, maybe it's an opportunity in a small business, a startup company or something.


Obviously, the rules and regulations and what you can and cannot invest in but is this an awakening of freedom of wealth? It's almost like the middle class has figured out how to build their own wealth and take control of their retirement account. A decade ago, you couldn't do this. You had to give your money to some big company that thought they were better than you and knew how to trade better than you and you had no control of what your money's doing. This is nice. Like an awakening, isn't it?


James: It is what we call the democratization of Wall Street finally, yes absolutely. Several years ago, you did not have an opportunity to invest in the next Google or Microsoft. Now, we do. We have that opportunity. We have the opportunity to invest in real assets like real estate that's collateralized, that doesn't necessarily have to lose everything because it's secured. Again, if we take a look at the average high net worth investor, they have 22% of their assets in Wall Street, their largest asset class is real estate and that's 40% to 45%. Yes, now we can invest in real estate and across multiple types of real estate assets. This truly is the democratization of Wall Street. This is the greatest thing that we've seen since the 1934 Act.


Aaron: It's so important. It gives the power back to the people. While we have a sneaking suspicion in my opinion the government just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Eventually, what we've seen, history repeats itself is, that if the government gets too big, it almost eats itself. I think by this little rule, I know it's a small token in the whole big game, but being able to self-direct your IRA is really a strong tool that I'm glad the politicians didn't take away.


Now, they were going to take away the ability to self-direct your IRA and really restrict that, but that was essentially changed out of the current bill. Just go over what was in the current bill just a week ago and that's a scary thing that really wasn't on the headlines all that much. I'm glad the politicians came to their senses and took away the restriction to self-direct your IRAs. That doesn't seem like it's going to be enforced now. It's a fast track to get voted out of office anyway. What were these silly politicians trying to push last week? What was the law that was in the bill?


James: Part of this or maybe much of it comes out of the Peter Thiel $5 billion Roth IRA which meant in the eyes of the IRS, this was an abuse of the system, if you will and-


Aaron: Because he made a bunch of money. He invested wisely, successfully, founded the American dream. Invested in companies that were starting and very successfully cashed out and the IRS said, "No, no, no, you can't do that in America." So annoying. Anyway, go on.


James: True. Technically, there was not an abuse. He followed the IRS rules where he grew a Roth IRA to a $5 billion dollar point. He did have great opportunities because of who he was in his network, absolutely. The everyday investor doesn't necessarily have those opportunities. Although, you can go to any number of these platforms like an angel list and invest in startups. You just have to be smart enough to know which ones. Anyway, without getting into the weeds, they decided to go after Peter Thiel by going after the everyday investors. The bullets basically that we dodged was any capital raise that required an investor to be accredited would no longer be allowed to do that in an IRA. That would be a regulation D raise.


That's the first part, that investors would no longer be allowed to invest. The reality is with a lot of the accreditation laws being changed, you don't necessarily have to have certain net worths and income. You can become accredited by taking your Series 65 so they've loosened those laws. What you're really doing is affecting more main street investors, not just the super-wealthy. The second part of that bill which would have been really devastating for many purposes would any investment that was a lengthy investment would need to be unwound within two years.


Think about that, you've got a private market with no liquidity. You would be forcing investors to try and sell into a market that doesn't exist today. In order to do that, think about the companies that had raised capital, you'd basically be decimating those. They would be forced into bankruptcy and foreclosure and then that of course affects the employment law. You would have people unemployed. The results would have been devastating. That was a great thing. The second was that there would be no more backdoor Roth IRAs.


Again, this is not just meant for the super-wealthy. If you have combined income over the ballpark of about $180,000, you can't contribute to a Roth. What you can do is contribute to a traditional IRA, and then convert it to a Roth. Now, you still would have to pay taxes on any gains within that but the idea is you're taxing the seed versus taxing the harvest. For any everyday investor that may have done really well in business or had a good year, they still would be able to invest in convert dollars into a Roth.


The other major point and this is very much in real estate investing with self-directed IRAs, there would be no more LLC or checkbook IRAs. The point there is, if you're a self-directed IRA investor and you might be investing with more than just your own IRA, you may have other partners, you might be investing in multiple assets and you might have multiple streams of income coming in and monies needing to go out to pay for different real estate taxes and repairs and things like that. A self-directed IRA would be absolutely impossible.


What you can do is create an LLC and you can then have one checking account or you can partner your different investors. You can partner on multiple assets and you can handle the income streams in and out. That makes absolute sense, and those would be eliminated. That would be very devastating for the self-directed IRA industry of which 65%, 70% is invested in real estate.


Aaron: What are these politicians thinking? Like, do they even understand how business works? You can't just make a law that says you need to wind down all of your investments in a huge space that is literally aimed at making long-term investments. About a third of our investors, self director, IRAs, and real estate for our real estate fund. Their view is long-term. A lot of these people are 40 years old, maybe, and they're not going to be able to even touch their IRA for another 20 years. Why would they invest in something that they're going to pull out of in two years? Real estate for us, are long-term investment, we buy in high demand markets and grows over time. It's professionally managed. When we buy it, it's mismanaged. We buy for a discount, but it's a maturity investment.


It takes time to make a good return on it because we refinance over about a four-year period. Our whole strategy would be thrown awry. We'd have to sell the buildings or whatever to get them out. We probably do fine because real estate is so hot right now. We'd probably laugh all the way to the bank, but the bottom line is it would probably hurt them. It would definitely hurt the market. It's so crazy. Like if boy, if I were smarter, I feel like the politicians are trying to force us to keep our money in the stock market with a bunch of fortune 500 companies. It's almost like they're working for the corporations or something. You ever get that feeling like politicians are working for corporations and not for you. It's a sneaking suspicion I have sometimes. It seems like this law may have reinforced that sneaking suspicion.


James: My wife says I'm not allowed to talk about politics.


Aaron: Okay. [laughs] You're right. We are agnostic here. Okay. We love politicians. They make great decisions. Obviously, this is frustrating law. Obviously, this corporations corporation said, "Hey, you know what? These pesky self-direct IRA companies are allowing people to take their money out of the stock market and out the S&P 500 and we don't like that because we're the S&P 500." By the way, we funded your campaign. You got to-- so it's so obvious a law to restrict us from getting out of the rat race of having to put your money in the S&P 500, which all those companies are now too big to fail anyways. They're not really acting like responsible companies anyway, because they're too big to fail. They know if they make a bad bet, they're going to get bailed out by our tax dollars.


Is that the casino, you really want to have all your eggs in for your retirement. A lot of people are saying, nay. I'm tired of the S&P 500. I'm tired of not controlling my retirement account and not even knowing when I'm really being charged or what my broker's really even investing in, or what value he's bringing. There's a certain pride to taking control of your retirement account.


I love it when I work with someone who's like an older person, who's just like, hey, for the first time in their life, they're just getting out of the stock market or taking control of their retirement account. I was talking with a single mom the other day who was looking to self-direct some of her IRA and had saved up a good amount, and it was a really exciting time for her to do this now. It's an amazing feeling when someone takes control of their retirement account. That excitement doing that and diversifying some of their capital into real estate, really is an amazing experience for people. I'm so glad the government didn't take that away for multiple reasons. [laughs] Do you see that, law coming back in place, or has that really lost steam at this point?


James: Oh, hopefully. It lost steam. Our industry got together with a number of different-- we created a number of non-profits and started to work with lobbyists to educate our local politicians and congressmen. We got several politicians involved and I think part of it comes from when the government is looking to raise taxes. They tend to look at areas where there might be, either loopholes or areas where the IRS might not be getting what they feel is their rightful and fair share of taxes paid. One of those areas that people look to in a checkbook IRAs is that it's not always as visible to the IRS what the valuation of those assets are. The IRS has what's called the dirty dozen list, and that's the top 12 things that are flags that the IRS can audit that has proven to be a problem in the past.


Specifically, the abuses that the IRS has seen with self-directed IRA checkbook or LLCs is in the conversions. I'll give you a perfect example. Let's take a house, a real estate investment worth $100,000, and they want to convert that IRA from a traditional self-directed IRA to a Roth IRA. What has been done in the past is they devalue that asset by getting an appraiser or somebody that will say, "Hey, it's a knockdown, house it's only worth $10,000." Then when they do in what they call an in-kind conversion, that house sits in the IRA owned by the IRA converts to a Roth, the taxes due on the Roth IRA is a $10,000 investment. They only pay the IRS $3,000 versus $30,000.


In other words, it's when Roth conversions are done in-kind, and the underlying owned assets is devalued in an improper way, the IRS loses out on the money. That's the crux of the problem where if the assets aren't visible to the IRS, how do they know what the value was in there for the tax? That's the underlying problem. I think many congressmen have realized the benefits of being able to invest in these alternative investments to help our own retirement and be less dependent on the government. I believe that will be the rearview window.


Aaron: Okay. No, absolutely. I understand that people are always trying to avoid paying taxes and tax fraud is an issue. We want to make sure everyone is paying their fair share, but I almost feel like they set the rules of the game, the IRS, and then it's like, oh, no, people are winning too much. They're making too much money and we need to crack down on this success here in America. It's just backwards. It's just not the way it's supposed to be in this country. It's not what we're founded on.


Hopefully, they changed that mindset of trying to restrict people from building wealth. Honestly the more you try to restrict people from building wealth, the less time you'll be in the office quite frankly. We'll see how that pans out. All right. Well, that's good to know that there is some explanation behind that there, and maybe they find a way to crack down on checkbook, IRA, LLC accounts, and have a one extra rule in place. The appraisal has to be done by a party selected by the IRS or something like that and that would solve the problem instead of pulling out the whole carpet. You're like, "Nope, no more of these." That's good.


James: There's an annual form called a 5498 that needs to be filed. If you have a 5498 for the underlying assets in the checkbook IRA, the problem is solved.


Aaron: Yes, exactly. Good. One more question for you here, James, and we'll wrap up here for the morning. How would I self-direct a solo 401k? A lot of people I work with are small business owners and have a solo 401k. What's the process of making your 401k into a self-directed IRA essentially.


James: You're talking about the perfect industry real estate where you have people that are involved as real estate investors or realtors, et cetera. You're speaking to an industry to a great degree is a 1099 or it could be a gig worker or a combination of the above, but you have the absolute opportunity to put away up to $58,000 a year, and they're actually two different programs where you can do that. We'll start with a solo 401k, and that's really for business owners that do not have employees. They may have a partner or a spouse, but they're allowed to set up a plan where the employer and the employee can contribute. You can use a Roth solo 401k, so you're putting in after-tax money, but again, the whole conversation like the Peter Thiel monies that come out of that are never taxed. As long as there's a fun year holding period on the underlying asset for capital appreciation, but that being said, the distributions that come out are always tax-free.


Again, you can put up to $58,000 a year, and for those that are 50 and older, there's an additional 6,500 in a catch-up provision. This solo 401k does not come under the heavy restrictions and provisions of ERISA laws. In fact, you can even set up your own solo 401k, so you don't need all the heavy rules, regulations, admin processes. It's very simple to do. It's filling out a simple form and filing that with the IRS.


The other is what's called a SEP, a simplified employee pension program. You can also put away up to $58,000 a year. There is very little administration. Technically, it's just an IRA. Literally, a SEP can be opened in minutes, and it does become a business expense deduction. Let's say, you had a really good year and you made $200,000, 58,000 would come right off the top of what you're going to pay. You can use the tax laws to your benefit by being knowledgeable, really at the end of the day may have felt or sounded like we're bashing the IRS, but the IRS says, that it's your ability to pay taxes, but it's your right to avoid taxes, not evade, but avoid. You just need to know the rules and play by the rules, but if you do, you're allowed to avoid taxes in a legal way by [unintelligible 00:32:36].


Aaron: No, I'm not bashing the IRS. It's important we pay taxes. We need to have military, schools, roads, these are important things we all want to pay our fair share, but yes, it is a little crazy sometimes with the Fed. It's really an interesting time right now, and our institutions that are in place to safeguard against hyperinflation, to safeguard against being limited to keeping all your eggs in one basket, but I hope they take the right actions in the near future to slow down inflation, and I try to recognize that it's not a temporary problem. If I hear one more politician, tell me that inflation is just a figure of my imagination and it's temporary. I'm not really sure if I'm going to keep listening to them. It's just an interesting time right now with inflation where it's at, but I'm really glad that we have the option, self direct your IRA. It is a good option for many people to do to diversify, and real estate is a tried and true asset class, so that's why a lot of people are investing these days, especially, in high demand real estate, we try to buy within an hour in New York City, so we focus on apartment buildings that are mismanaged in North Jersey. Like I said, about a third of our investors self-direct their IRA out of the stock market into real estate.


By the way, for our listeners, if you want to learn more about that process, you can go to peoplescapitalgroup.com. You can fill an application form and learn more about how to get qualified, to invest passively with Peoples Capital Group. James, how can people reach Alto IRA if they want to learn more about signing up with Alto and self-directing their IRA.


James: It's just altoira.com.


Aaron: Excellent. Excellent. Yes, the process is so easy. I went to altoira.com. I put in my information for a current deal. I'm actually going to put another deal up in about a few weeks or so as well. We'll have two deals on the site pretty soon. I really like the way the site works. It was easy to work with on my end, very clean, very fast, and I think our listeners will have the same experience they choose to go with Alto IRA for their needs there. I hope you do. Thank you, James, so much for coming on here and explaining the situation here, answering my questions, and dealing with my vague political opinions. I don't know if you can figure out which way I lean, but you'll just have to keep guessing.


James: Well, yes, the greatest thing that you're doing is education. We talk about the democratization of Wall Street. That's allowing investors to diversify, but the other really is from a tax issue, when I worked at Merrill Lynch in the trust department, we worked with very wealthy individuals and families, and the biggest issue, interestingly enough was not how many basis points were they paying on their funds, whether they were getting 8% or 10% return. The biggest issues were taxes, and getting around taxes in a legal and compliant way because you think about it that eats 25% to 30% of your returns. You bringing education to the mass is the best thing that you can do to work with your investors to retain as much of their retirement savings as they can. Greatly appreciate everything that you're doing. Thank you so much.


Aaron: Thank you. No, absolutely. I appreciate that as well, and it feels good to help people diversify out the stock market. It really does. It's like we're really doing a service here. Thank you. I appreciate your time here, James. Definitely, I'm going to encourage more of my investors to contact Auto IRA and keep working with you myself as well on the operator side.


Certainly, if you're interested in diversifying that IRA into real estate, I think Peoples Capital Group would be a great place to look into, figure out where it fits for your investment goals, so go to peoplescapitalgroup.com to learn more and keep listening to the Passive Cash Flow Podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Fragnito. We have a new episode now every week for you. Keep on signing up, listening here. We have a webinar tonight as well. Check out peoplescapitalgroup.com to sign up for an upcoming webinar. We do them every month also. Thanks a lot for joining us, James.


James: Thank you, Aaron. Take care.

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