Will there be another pandemic?

Updated: Jul 4

Find out today on the Passive Cash Flow Podcast with this prestigious interview with Dr. Gordon Chiu! Part II of this incredible interview with Dr. Gordon will focus on Predictions for the next pandemic, the best real estate to buy to be prepared for the next pandemic, and how to level up! Dr. Chiu actively tutors in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math and ACT/SAT. Gordon was born in New York and grew up in northern New Jersey. He graduated from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute summa cum laude in Chemistry. For his Master’s in Chemistry, while working full-time at Merck, he traded the opportunity for a multi-year program at Columbia University for a three semester program at Seton Hall University. He didn’t have to pay the bridge tolls or get stuck in traffic! None of this mattered much after he got a full scholarship from the National Institutes of Health for an MD/PhD program. He focused on dermatology research. Four years later, Gordon got another two scholarships and formally completed a doctoral degree in Natural medicine and a doctorate in business. Right after school, Gordon was chosen as “doctor” for numerous skincare brands including representing Demi Moore’s skincare event in Asia. Today, Gordon has a young family, a wife and two daughters under the age of 5. Gordon is a prolific inventor with over 31 filed patents during his tenure in the corporate world. Ultimately, though, he decided to ditch the trappings of corporate America in order to spend more time teaching and motivating youth to discover their passions and pursue them with the same kinds of successes he has had– an experience he finds more rewarding, dynamic, and even, at times, more challenging than figuring out the material science, chemical, and medical applications of graphene. He has over fifteen years of combined, in-depth, university school relationships (ranging from Berkeley, Cornell, MIT, and Northwestern to National University of Singapore, NYU, Rutgers, and Waterloo). He has also taught at the EF Academy and Horace Mann. He has been featured on Princeton TV as a super-tutor! The Passive Cash Flow Podcast is for beginner or experienced investors. Learn how you can diversify out of the stock market, own a part of an apartment building & start earning Passive Cash Flow! Peoples Capital Group has been helping passive investors build wealth in NJ real estate for 10 years. Visit to find out if you qualify to start earning passive income and pay less taxes via investing in real estate. IRA's and 401K's are accepted. -- #NJRealEstateInvesting #AaronFragnito #PassiveCashFlow #PCG


Aaron Fragnito: Hello, ladies and gentlemen and welcome back to the passive cash flow podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Fragnito, co-owner of People's Capital Group and this is a continuation of an interview with Dr. Gordon Chiu. Just an amazing guest here we've had in the Passive Cash Flow podcast. This is part two of three. This part we're going to focus on predictions for future pandemics and how to prepare for them, ways to prevent future pandemics like we've seen here with the Coronavirus, and the best real estate to buy for this newer business environment we are in with pandemics. We're going to break into this. We're also going to talk about leveling up your game and working with people that can bring you to the next level in business and investment. Without further ado, here is part two of our interview with Dr. Gordon Chiu.

Dr. Gordon Chiu: Now, I've also mentioned because you mention technology, in my other interviews, I mentioned about how in 2016 we were drilling in the North and South pole. We were drilling for oil, but we were also drilling for materials. You know what we discovered, we found that in Antarctica, especially, if you type in CNN Antarctica, space those two words so that it's not one word. What you'll find is that there'll be an article in April that showed the world how we drilled in the South pole. We found that underneath the South hole was actually a rain forest.

Aaron: What?

Dr. Chiu: Yes, rain forest. This is CNN and also, it's documented in Nature, top scientific journal in the world so this is not hocus-pocus stuff. What happens is, we found that that's the case, and in order to find that we actually drilled many meters deep, 50 meters, 100 meters. We did course railings into the earth and we found this when we pulled it out, we pulled out periods of time. It was in the ice. We're pulling out prehistoric viruses and bacteria and pulling them out and they got into the air and they traveled. It's not just like it travels from one location or anything, it travels everywhere and it's not just one country doing it.

We're all doing it because we can't be drilling in New Jersey, there's real estate on top. We can't be drilling in Manhattan, there's real estate on top. What we do is we'd go to these unknown locations. We can't go to Africa or Australia because Africa is Africa and Australia is Australia, but nobody owns Antarctica. We go there and we drill these things. We release the stuff and then it goes in the air. We may have released things that are dating back to a few thousand years old, a thousand years ago.

Aaron: When you found this forest it's a petrified forest in ice, correct, under a glacier?

Dr. Chiu: Well, they pulled out things that actually contained spores and seeds that were still active. You could actually grow them from the prehistoric period and this is all reported in that article, very detailed. Anybody who's listening to this can go and check this stuff out for themselves, but they should have called you, Aaron and said, "Hey, do you mind if I do this? Would it bother you?" Then you might say, "No problem. We'll just put it to a vote. You can go do, whatever you drill." Now, that you understand this though and what it did to your life, you might have a second opinion on this saying, "I really don't want to think anybody should be drilling down there without a virologist going there with them."

When you pull up the stuff and there's some blood from a saber tooth or a dinosaur, you're not just dumping it into the ocean or something or into the air and letting it evaporate. That's what happened. It wasn't encapsulated. It was just let to vaporize. Now, maybe the earth eventually melts to that level anyway, there's global climate change we're dealing with, but the time we reached that would be 2350, the year, 2350. Well, what year is it now? It's 2020. We're just about a few hundred years early.

Aaron: Has that discovery though, like we can't go back there and look more into it?

Dr. Chiu: The Pandora's box is open now. We will be having another pandemic in the next 10 years.

Aaron: Because of that, you think because of that drilling it released-

Dr. Chiu: It's not just that drilling. There's all kinds of things going on. In 2009 I was in this documentary called Germs, the Invisible Enemy. One of the reasons why I'm interviewed so much is I'm in there saying that in the next 10 years, we'll have another pandemic. Well, here we are. From 2009, we have another pandemic this time it's called COVID-19. Now, I'll be very straightforward and honest. I interviewed some top economists talking about what would happen to the economy and I have some very positive news to tell everybody. Is, during that time the predictions was our economies in the world would have global catastrophe introducing the next great depression, except, that was based on oil being at $150 a barrel.

Where are oil prices now, they're so low? I think we've rebounded from this. We have a great opportunity to learn from our mistakes and we now need to be very careful. The light at the end of the tunnel is that if everybody was careful, and this is an easy one [unintelligible 00:05:19] with just spikes and pH 10 soap we now understand that. We don't have to go looking for 60% alcohol, just pH 10 soap. We can wear gloves; we can be careful. It's a bit uncomfortable, but compared to the societal damages if people got infected or more people got infected, you'd have no idea where they go.

That cost, if you weigh the two costs, now if you waited eventually too much then not opening up anything could become and that's when you create enough catastrophes. Knowing that we might have another virus in the next 10 years, what would you do? I introduced those couple of books for everyone because I read those books and it changed my life because I wanted to have perpetual fire, meaning I wanted financial independence, retire early to be continuous. You asked me about real estate, right, Aaron? I wanted to get involved in real estate. I got involved with commercial real estate, but knowing the H1N1 virus, I only would buy grocery stores and pharmacies. I'd buy nothing else. That's the only asset class that I have in commercial real estate is, grocery stores and pharmacies.

Aaron: I see because they're only places open right now and they're selling out hand in fist. That's an interesting investment there. Now, the H1N1, you bring that up, why didn't we shut down the economy for the H1N1?

Dr. Chiu: Well, first of all, the symptoms in H1N1 we could detect. It was easy on us. As easy as the Coronavirus is with the spikes if we know what to do, which we now know, thanks to you being so generous in interviewing me and sharing that.

Aaron: Yes, thanks to me we now know, you're welcome.

Dr. Chiu: Thanks to you your entire community now know what to do.

Aaron: I've been sitting here eating chicken and rice and potatoes. It's been tough, man. It's been tough and washing my hands for 20 seconds. I have been cheating there a little bit, but I got to stop. I got to wash longer.

Dr. Chiu: Maybe now how I help you is, I've now changed your thinking slightly, it's just a slight change, nothing severe. Then you asked the question about H1N1. We could take a gun that measures people's foreheads and we could tell, you have are you going to infect someone. If your temperature was up, we could put you in the thing, this Coronavirus has no symptoms. It's a very different animal altogether. In fact, it's not the flu. The influenza virus, the pandemic one, H1N1, that was the flu. That was the swine flu. This is not the flu. This is something different. Now, that's why you can't call the cold, the flu. They're different.

This particular thing causes some very different symptoms. It affects different types of cells and infects very differently. For example, the cold sore is an unencapsulated virus. It doesn't have a shell. It doesn't have spikes. You know how difficult it is to get rid of cold sores? You know how many people have cold sores? That's a very different one. Maybe the next one that we get in the next 10 years is an unencapsulated virus that doesn't cause symptoms. How is that and how are you going to be prepared? Are you just going to say, well, guess what, you and I will be 10 years older than? Maybe that virus, the threshold is lower so that people in their 40s are at risk. That would include you then.

Use this opportunity to learn of how to deal with the invisible enemy. Our biggest enemy is not Russia now, it's not the cold war. It is this virus that can infect loved ones and it can change how you receive your end roll. What I did was after reading those books about fire, the fire movement, I'm a big fire guy and I look at this and say, "I don't want some problems with my fire. I don't want my fire to be put out. What can I do?! I studied these classes of real estate and I said, "I want no offices, I don't want any residential."

Now, real estate brokers looked at those very strange because they said, "What is the difference between a restaurant, a gym and a pharmacy and grocery store?" They're all the same to them. I didn't look at it like that, but nowadays one is a non-essential and the other is essential business and now it's become classified. Now, the cat's out of the bag. Everybody who studies with you for real estate understands that. Now, I had some very, if you want to get to this level, people talking about leveling up.

I'm going to give you a big secret. Everybody who listens through Aaron is going to learn, and Seth Martinez this big secret. I'm going to give away my secret tonight.

Aaron: All right, get your pens out.

Dr. Chiu: This is the secret.

Aaron: Here we go. Here we go.

Dr. Chiu: Here we go. You understand that buying shopping clauses and pharmacies they're not cheap and if you buy a lot of them, that's not a coincidence. I'm going to tell you why I was able to do that. First of all, I was mentored and taught and trained by the guy who helped fight off something called Anthrax. Now, that's a big bad one, 9/11, anthrax. He worked with me and so he's my mentor. Another mentor of mine is somebody who his name is Keith Baqia, and he is my mentor in business and real estate.

He helped me to see the difference between this and to ensure that the entire asset class is that way. He's worth maybe $250 million, $300 million. He became somebody who trained me to think this way. He's done business with our current president of the United States and Keith found a liking in who I am, and he started training me. My secret to you is, find the right mentors in life. When you find the right mentors, the game of chess equals the game of life can be completed in a few steps as possible. That's all you need to do, just a few steps.

Now if you don't have the proper mentor, and you're being led down, it's the blind leading the blind, you may have to be doing a lot of steps and it's no longer chess, it’s now maybe the game of checkers and you can go backwards and forwards and whatever it is. It's a total mess because it can consume you completely. Having these mentors have been very, very important. Now the third mentor I had is, I'm giving my secret away. During 9/11 I dated a girl that died in 9/11.

Aaron: Oh my gosh, wow.

Aaron: Yes. I was an MD, Ph.D. candidate which means I was paid a salary to go to medical school. Paid to go. At that moment when she left it wasn't like it was such a perfect relationship and we were married and having children, it was just in a dating relationship. The effect was so large that I had a taste of what it meant to be depressed. I was lost in the subway for six hours. I couldn't get up and I couldn't continue. Then my mentor. Professor Michael Cox, he and Professor Larry Reid these two particular mentors, one was in the business world.

I went in with an MD for Dermatology, and I went with a Ph.D. for Cellular Signaling how cells talk to one another, complicated stuff, and then out came with Professor Michael Cox, which is a Doctorate in Business Administration. He told me to do one thing is, “Make sure you work on things that are not in existence at all. Only work on projects that nobody's heard of.”

Aaron: Interesting.

Dr. Chiu: Well, what does that mean? That means patenting, that means inventing. You’ll only get a patent granted in your name, and you can only file patents that you can't find in books. This is new knowledge novel, work on that and your goal, this is what Michael said to me, “Your goal is to make them popular while you're working on them. If you can take something that nobody cares about, and while you're working on them you become the hottest stuff since sliced bread. If you could do that, then you will make money. You’ll definitely make money.” This is what he said, it's as simple as that.

Now, this particular individual is no longer on earth, he died from brain cancer. He told me that I need to go to Bridgeport to study Natural Medicine. Now I already had my skincare and I was already a consultant in the skincare business, in the skincare world. As you know, I was Demi Moore's spokes doctor back in Hong Kong. Him telling me to go in that direction made me unique. It made me so unique that I could then discover things that were different. Here's a dying man that told me to go to Connecticut because I could leave that location that burdened me, and I could heal myself and let time pass.

Now, the other person that saved my life, Professor Larry Reid, he was my undergraduate professor, and we stayed in contact so that by the time I went to medical school we had been friends for over 10 years now. Nowadays, we've been friends for 25 years and he told me that when bad things happen to you it's actually a silver lining. It creates purpose in your life. It changes direction. The third person that saved me was Professor Milly Dresselhaus and it wasn't during 9/11. I would end up meeting her in 2014. I'm sorry 2011. She won the Freedom Medal from former President Obama in 2014. That's the highest medal that you can receive in the entire country, United States.

She helped me with my work in graphene, and she inspired me to go further to create those exoskeletons, to create the new materials at Rutgers that can combine graphene with plastics. She inspired me to do that. Those individuals. Mildred Dresselhaus was the first female tenured professor at MIT. She is no longer on earth now. After receiving her award from former President Obama in 2014, she would die on February 20th, 2017 three years later. She told me, she's a super scientist and at that time I was having my children, and in 2016 I had my second daughter, and she told me to go do things that would be beneficial for my family.

Focus on your family, sell-out everything else. Focus on your family, the time will come. Keith Baqi I mentioned, he's the one that then brought me into business and showed me these business tactics and various things. Through the universe of all those mentors combined, it changed my thinking and that is what if you have family first, my daughter's helped me get into real estate because they made me want to spend time with them. Obviously, they're your children, but the how-to, to spend time with someone meant that if I'm going to buy an asset class, it better be well thought out unless I have someone like you looking at it 24/7. Now, that's a little plug for you so anybody who wants to subscribe.

Aaron: Thank you.

Dr. Chiu: Here's the thing is that there's risk in relying on Aaron and Seth because if you don't find in Aaron and Seth and you find somebody who's not, there could be risk that's why you should all call Seth and Aaron. That's the thing, but how often do you have someone so determined on taking care of their customers? Now you just said something, you might have to edit it out I don't know but don't it's nice and fun, because it's honest. Tonight-- I'm a Christian man and I pray that you because you have so many people who are relying on you to bring them to not just one year of return, but I'm talking about a lifetime of return. Constant winnings, compounded winnings of 15% every year. Every year.

Aaron: Yes, let’s get it. Let’s get it, yes.

Dr. Chiu: If you got sick, or if you were dysfunctional for one year, if you were like Millie where you're gone now, I miss Millie. She changed my life. She helped me get to where I am, 31 patents. If you’d interviewed me two weeks ago only 28, but now I’ve 31.

Aaron: Congratulations.

Dr. Chiu: Yes, it goes up. Keith, you know what happened with him? After showing me all the real estate stuff, he decided to put money and invest in me. Then in my 31st patent, he's one of the investors.

Aaron: Great.

Dr. Chiu: Here's a $300 million guy investing in little me. When I think about life, how are you supposed to know that you're not going to turn into the Warren Buffett? We might be actually dealing with the next Warren Buffett, his name is Aaron.

Aaron: I love-- Dr. Gordon sure, I think we make a good team here. We should do a roadshow.

Dr. Chiu: You want that?

Aaron: Yes, I think so. I like-

Dr. Chiu: Well, I'm going to tell you something is if you got sick, I would be very disappointed in you. You make sure that you don't eat those pringle chips with your gloves on without them being labeled. Now, once you label them with the virus, now I want to challenge you to eat those pringle chips with the word virus on there. You might be totally reminded I can't do that to my investors because I need to secure, you know what I wish for you? Is I hope you have a million investors following you within the next 10 years-

Aaron: Heck, yes.

Dr. Chiu: - because you’re that good. If you could do 15% compounded every year, and you start eating healthy and you start being healthy because you don't just live for yourself. You live for them because they rely on you.

Aaron: I really do, I really do. There's a lot of pressure in this business. It's you going, it keeps you-

Dr. Chiu: You’re one of the few guys that want to do it right. I've heard you many times you want to make money for people. You don't want to take their money.

Aaron: No, absolutely. Even the times we've had investments that rarely

didn't work out, we always made good. Our investors always made sure that our investors hit those margins.

Dr. Chiu: You have a secret weapon that I know about. You know I know about your secret weapon.

Aaron: What's that?

Dr. Chiu: Do you know about what I know about you?

Aaron: What do you know about me? Let me see.

Dr. Chiu: I know your wife, right? I know you have a wife, right?

Aaron: Oh yes, Diane.

Dr. Chiu: I never met your wife. I know about your secret weapon. I'm going to tell everybody about your secret weapon. Are you okay with that?

Aaron: Let them hear it man what it's all about.

Dr. Chiu: Your secret weapon is that in your life you have a special person who you met that allows you to secure these returns for other people. That person's name is Seth Martinez. You've mentioned him in your talks, right? How come I know about that? I actually have a special approach to many things I do in life. Which is I make sure that I understand what it is that makes you work well. When you have an operator like Seth, because you go in there and you do the talks, you do the podcast. Without him looking at the operations, well how is that going to work?

When I look at your dynamic, you alone will not make this work. This is why this team that you have is so important. Is that it's the one, two combination. If you're Batman, he's Robin, that kind of thing. You know who I am? Is I'm not Batman and I'm not Robin? I'm Alfred, I'm the guy who comes up with the Super Ben. I just stay in my range. I work on scientific projects. Nobody should be calling my number. Why? Because I'm a boring guy. I have nothing good to talk about and I only work on things that don't even exist. Why would you want to have a friend like that?

Aaron: Oh, right. Your story is awesome. Come on. This is one of the most interesting podcasts I've done. This is a Joe Rogan level podcast right here.

Dr. Chiu: You think so?

Aaron: I know so. Absolutely.

Dr. Chiu: Thank you for those compliments. We'll try to make it good.

Aaron: In fact, I'll call up Joe Rogan. I'll say, "Hey, I got a great guest for you, Joe." All right, we'll get shot in there. Hear the podcast world. We all know Joe Rogan. That's how it works.

Dr. Chiu: If you can do me one favor, Aaron is, I only have one wish, which is I hope that the people who are listening to this talk, if they have any children who are scientists to be, do not rely on their curiosity to carry them for 10 years after college. See college is already four years, 10 years after college, that's 14 total years since high school. I don't know very many people wanting to leave their curiosity to creating scientists based on that. That's a lot of risk. What you'd have to think about is do we need scientists in this world?

You mentioned about vaccines, right? I'm going to give a plug for future scientists, not existing scientists. We're dying. We'll soon will be dead. Here's the thing is that because we all age, but the next generation of scientists come from the young kids out there. What we need to do is we need to create a system that encourages them to be scientists, not to rely on curiosity. That way in case we need a vaccine, there'll be plenty of scientists around. We do that for our soldiers. There is a boot camp for Marines. There's a bootcamp for the Navy Seals. There is no bootcamp to create a million scientists.

The countries with more scientists tend to win. Look, we had Einstein and look what happened. We were able to win World War II. He came up with all kinds of things. We even gave him amnesty to come into this country. Then the other thing is we also had scientists like Pavlov. We had scientists like Pastore. Now we know how to pasteurize things. Our technology we haven't even had a scientist/artist Steve Jobs. He had that insight. We have Elon Musk who's a businessman/scientist. We need more scientists because sometimes scientists are not good hearted either. Sometimes there could be the bad scientists. Scientists that make GMO or stuff like that. I'm just making stuff up as I go. Sometimes [crosstalk]-

Aaron: GMOs have helped us get better, bigger crops, haven't they?

Dr. Chiu: Yes. There's also good things about GMOs with crops perhaps like that. I don't want to get into the thing of it. If you don't like the scientist you're working with and you want to find another one that you like. Scientists are not doctors. Medical doctors are paid to see patients. Is that correct?

Aaron: Sure. Right.

Dr. Chiu: Medical doctors are not paid to read magazines. Especially not picturesque magazines in there that have cells and other things in there and they're not being paid to do that. They're being paid to see patients. They're not being paid to read chemical journals and other things, physics and stuff like that. Well, scientists are. Scientists are funded to do only one thing, which is not see patients, even if they're a medical doctor/scientist. That's what I was doing. I was being primed to work on science to think, don't worry about other things.

Just think. When I'm at Rutgers, I'm not asked to teach kids at the faculty level because I'm paid to think. We want people, the young kids to be paid to think. If I told them that when I was younger and I tried to date a nice fashion model, well, and I told them I was a scientist, that was the end of the date.

Aaron: Well, I was just thinking that. A lot of times the best talent in the science world ends up in finance. Making huge profits for hedge funds because quite frankly you're going to make a lot more doing that than working in a lab. I guess the argument is a lot of the best talents end up in the finance world. Perhaps this experience will change a lot of young minds.

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