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What is the 10,000 rule? How do you retire early?

Updated: Jul 4


Find out today on the Passive Cash Flow Podcast with this prestigious interview with Dr. Gordon Chiu! Part III of this incredible interview with Dr. Gordon will focus on:


👉 What is the 10,000 hour rule

👉 How to retire early

👉 Insights into how patents works


Dr. Chiu actively tutors in Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math and ACT/SAT. Gordon was born in New York and grew up in northern New Jersey. He graduated from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute summa cum laude in Chemistry. For his Master’s in Chemistry, while working full-time at Merck, he traded the opportunity for a multi-year program at Columbia University for a three semester program at Seton Hall University. He didn’t have to pay the bridge tolls or get stuck in traffic! None of this mattered much after he got a full scholarship from the National Institutes of Health for an MD/PhD program. He focused on dermatology research.


Four years later, Gordon got another two scholarships and formally completed a doctoral degree in Natural medicine and a doctorate in business. Right after school, Gordon was chosen as “doctor” for numerous skincare brands including representing Demi Moore’s skincare event in Asia. Today, Gordon has a young family, a wife and two daughters under the age of 5.


Gordon is a prolific inventor with over 31 filed patents during his tenure in the corporate world. Ultimately, though, he decided to ditch the trappings of corporate America in order to spend more time teaching and motivating youth to discover their passions and pursue them with the same kinds of successes he has had– an experience he finds more rewarding, dynamic, and even, at times, more challenging than figuring out the material science, chemical, and medical applications of graphene. He has over fifteen years of combined, in-depth, university school relationships (ranging from Berkeley, Cornell, MIT, and Northwestern to National University of Singapore, NYU, Rutgers, and Waterloo). He has also taught at the EF Academy and Horace Mann. He has been featured on Princeton TV as a super-tutor!


The Passive Cash Flow Podcast is for beginner or experienced investors. Subscribe today to learn how you can diversify out of the stock market, own a part of an apartment building & start earning Passive Cash Flow!


Peoples Capital Group has been helping passive investors build wealth in NJ real estate for 10 years. Visit www.PeoplesCapitalGroup.com to find out if you qualify to start earning passive income and pay less taxes via investing in real estate. IRA's and 401K's are accepted.

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Aaron: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, it's your host, Aaron Fragnito of the passive cash flow podcast and here is the final part of our amazing interview with Dr. Gordon Chiu. This is episode number 29. In this episode, we are going to focus on the 10,000-hour rule. Dr. Gordon Chiu is going to break that down. What is the 10,000-hour rule? What does that mean and how to retire early? He's just going to talk about his patents and a little bit of insight into how that works and this is the passive cashflow podcast, number 29. Be sure to subscribe for a new podcast episode every single week.

Yes, I got to say Dr. Fauci, the scientists we now know, and have come to love when we are in our living rooms every night. It's made science cool again, right? That's one silver lining, perhaps that we've seen through this Corona virus. It's made science cool again. There's been a lot of slowdowns of science. Math is tough and a lot of people don't get into, I was more of a language arts type of individual myself.

Gordon: Look what you have, you have all this real estate. Do you know if we did a cross-section of how many scientists have the amount of real estate you have, the answer comes down to almost nil, right? Very few.

Aaron: Right, and there's really a discrepancy in between doctors and scientists and their understanding of wealth creation and what to do with all that money they're earning through their high paid positions. It's really incredible. Some of our best investors are doctors and scientists, and I've met so many doctors that don't know what the word ROI means and it's incredible. These are some of the smartest minds in the world but the financial intelligence, it's not taught to doctors and scientists.

Gordon: You want to know why return on investment ROI, right? That was a quiz question for me. Right? If that particular thing is, most people don't know about the ROT theory, the return on time, and they don't understand that if you're going to be a medical doctor, you're a professional. That doesn't mean that you have the time now to actually go and do this. I'm going to give everybody one more secret is the 10,000-hour rule, right? If you need 10,000 hours based on Malcolm Gladwell to become an expert, well, we're going to get 10,000 hours. That's not in the book, by the way, the book talks about 10,000 hours being necessary to be an expert, but it's not in the book of how to get 10,000 hours. I'm going to show you how to get 10,000 hours right now, we do a simple calculation.

If you sleep for eight hours, and then the next thing you do is you then eat for three hours, the three meals, and you brush your teeth and do other things you round it up to 12 hours total. You lose half of your time in the 24 hours, day, eight plus four, right? So your now down to 12. Most people who are making a top salary and most people who are not making a top salary work 10 hours a day, right? They don't work nine to five. They work 10 hours a day, easily. If they are stuck in traffic, they might work eight hours a day and they might lose two hours a day just in driving back home if they're in the city and stuff like that. That's the transport issue. Now we were left with 12 minus 10, which is two.

Now those two hours, if you could become a hermit and focused all of your time, every day is 365 days a year, you could have 700 hours. That would take you seven years to get to the 10,000 hours. You need every seven years of the entire focus. I'm assuming that weekends, you don't have to work, but don't forget those work warriors who are top executives, they have to work on weekends. Otherwise someone's going to take their job from them. If they're pulling up 300 grand a year, but they don't have time to become another expert. Guess what happens when you get to 300,000 a year, is the company supposed to get rid of you. That's normal. When I read the book, Rich dad, poor dad, right? I understood about the quadrants, but then you overlay Malcolm Gladwell's thing about, well, how do I become an expert of what?

You have to screen what you're going to be an expert off and spend those two hours that you have, even if you spent half an hour, checkout what expert you want to be and what you love and focus on that. If you don't focus on your family, guess what happens. You can make all the money in the world and your family falls apart. Then you instantly lose half. This is how you lose half, you get a divorce or you become divorced, right? Then you lose half. That's how you lose instantly you lose half it's the game of life. You get divorced, you lose half. Sometimes you lose more than half because however many the chips lie, right? You're losing half financially, let's say, but you lose your children. You lose your relationships. You lose your purpose of life, it is now you have to find a different purpose. That's going to cost you more time. Right? So you've got to spend those hours to optimize purpose with your family right before you do any of the wealth and if you can align all that together, then it can be someone in transition. That's what I've learned. That's my last secret for everyone.

Aaron: Right and the truth is you don't have to master a real estate or a master stock trading to make money doing it. That's why companies like mine exist. Seth and I have put in the 10,000 hours plus. You're actually right without Seth, there wouldn't be a People's Capital Group. We are simply the ying to this yang,

Gordon: Batman and Robin.

Aaron: Yes, batman and Robin, so absolutely the most important thing. That's what makes a good team, a good company in any case. That's the idea. You don't need to do 10,000 hours of real estate research to make money in real estate. You can invest with syndication like ours and reap the benefits of it but, of course, if you want to be more hands-on and perhaps make greater returns or whatnot, then you do try to master the industry and learn it. Would you say you spent 10,000 hours before you invest in real estate or were you able to work with the right brokers and individuals to maybe water that down a little bit?

Gordon: Well, as you know, Aaron, I'm retired seven times in different jobs that I've done. I have other than sleeping and waking up, I have all those hours. I spent 2017 dabbling around. For most of my past 10 years, I've had about 12 hours every day to focus on anything I want. It is a very different lifestyle. When I was studying medicine, I was funded, I was venture-backed. So basically, I had the free reign to always do this for the past 20, some odd years. Then once I retired and each time I retired, I had the ability to take on different things and I synthesize, so my case is a little bit unfair because what happened was ever since high school I've been funded. I'm 46 this year so you can do the math and you calculate all that stuff.

It's not difficult for me to become an expert at something. For example, doing the real estate. I studied the real estate for my whole life. I didn't execute on real estate until I had enough to buy my first $4 million property. Then I didn't do my second purchase until I had enough to actually buy up to 10 million. Most people don't do that. Most people will jump out and they just buy like the first $200,000 property. Right. I waited throughout my twenties. I waited throughout my thirties. I've read that book, Rich dad, poor dad. I put it aside and I said, I am not going to go and buy a small property. I'm just not going to do it. I studied on why, because you can blow on it and something could go wrong. Right. I made sure that I got the relationships at the banking level before I did it.

There's two different approaches. Now what's happened is someone like you has amassed a lot more capital than I did. I just gave you my number 10 million, right? It took me until 46 years old to have that 10 million to work on. You've been starting from the very beginning, so there are two ways to do it, right? It's a little inching to do it or waiting. Now, some people will wait. There's also a distractor, maybe you actually don't even get there. You get distracted, you put it in the stock market, today's May 4th. Today is a very special day. Today is so special because Warren Buffet admitted that he made a bad bet in the airlines and he sold all four. Right? He lost billions. He made a bad bet. Now Warren Buffet with all those years of experience did not know that the COVID-19 situation would affect airlines as he did. Doesn't he say that when other people are fearful, you should be like greedy [crosstalk], right?

Aaron: Greedy and when others are greedy you should be--

Gordon: Pound your chest and go right in and that's what he did. He's a man of his word.

Aaron: Right. When others are fearful be greedy and when others are greedy be fearful. Honestly, those words have been reading through my head a lot during this time, and I'm thinking to myself, should I be ready? We are looking for opportunities. I think the more opportunities are going to come around. I know it's a terrible saying for these times but it's I guess the idea is, be ready to buy in a buyer's market, but that's crazy. I actually didn't hear that headline yet that he had exited all the airlines there.

Gordon: He did 180 reversal and he lost double-digit billions. Right. Double-digit billions.

Aaron: I have to check that out. That is crazy. Right now things are changing. The world is changing.

Gordon: What do you think of airlines? Let me ask you based on what you asked me now because I educated you a little bit too on the virus. How many other Aarons are out there who don't wash their hands, eat their things which-- Let's just assume-

Aaron: I do wash my hands.

Gordon: -but just not for 20 seconds, not with pH10 soap, right?

Aaron: I didn't even know about the pH 10. I had no idea. I literally [crosstalk]

Gordon: But now you know about the pH 10 so you can't say that you don't know, right?

Aaron: Now I know.

Gordon: Irish Spring, they're all pH 10. At least the brands that we checked, you can check it with pH paper. How many other people know? What's going to happen with the airlines?

Aaron: pH paper. I don't have pH paper. Oh my gosh.

Gordon: You can order it in the Amazon these days but let me ask you.

Aaron: This is what I'm talking about.

Gordon: This is more than The Rogan Show so I'm going to tell you. Do you brush your teeth with alkaline toothpaste? If you don't do that, your teeth are going to stay acid-like and then your teeth are going to rot.

Aaron: What type of toothpaste? I don't even know what type of toothpaste I use. I couldn't even tell you, literally, the type of toothpaste I use.

Gordon: Is it alkaline or is it neutral? You got to check, right?

Aaron: I think it's Colgate this time around but sometimes I get Aim because I like it. My wife needs it.

Gordon: You like the multiple colors, right? You're still like the kid in you.

Aaron: It's 99 cents. I'm very frugal. For things I have to buy, I'm frugal.

Gordon: You check that toothpaste. I don't have all the list of everything but you check that and make sure it's alkaline. pH 8. Don't use ph 10. I don't think they make pH 10 toothpaste but basically, someone might start making that after they listen to this.

Aaron: Write that down. Make pH 10. Get pH strips to start.

Gordon: Here's the thing. How many people are going to be sick who don't know what you know. This is why I do these interviews. People ask me why do I share this on your channel or other. One more saved is one better world. One more. What we want to do is we want to get more people to understand the science because the science is weirdly wacko. You don't have to spend 14 years studying science. I'd just distill it down for you. You understand this but now what about investing in airlines? See? Be fearful. Be greedy when others are fearful. Warren is fearful. Let's get greedy. You want to buy some United Airlines or American Airlines right now?

Aaron: If there's a time to buy it, it's probably now but [crosstalk]

Gordon: Right after Warren, would you do it?

Aaron: No. I don't know.

Gordon: With all your investors' money. Check the worth of the people's capital group.

Aaron: Here's why I wouldn't do it, because I don't control that asset. I personally put all my investments into real estate. I know I should be more diversified but I don't like stock market. I do not like investing in a number on a screen that I cannot control that's based on headlines right now. Not true fundamentals. Stocks are shooting up as companies are losing money hand over fist and the stock market's shooting up. It just doesn't make any sense. Right now, I am [crosstalk]

Gordon: It makes perfect sense. We printed $2 trillion and then we printed another $2 trillion. 2.3, I think, 2.6. We now have almost $5 trillion of money sloshing around. What we need to do is we need to print another $5 trillion so we get to a number like $10 trillion. What's going to happen this month? We need checks to come in too to keep everything going.

Aaron: That's the question. How long do we keep everything shut down? Estates open back up. You've seen that happening now. Do you think with the UV rays and sunlight coming out, there's truth to that, right? That that helps to kill the virus a little bit.

Gordon: Now, you're talking to nonsense.

Aaron: Now we're talking nonsense.

Gordon: Singapore and Hong Kong, they're closer to the equator than we are and they got all the UV rays and you'd look at Africa and places like that, they've got plenty of virus. South America is closer to the equator than we are and they've got plenty of virus. It has nothing to do with the UV rays. What kills this thing or takes this thing out is rainwater because there's enzymes, not because the rainwater is the rainwater. There's enzymes around. There's other bugs that don't see this bug that we don't see that eat this bug, eat this germs. Things break down. That's what it is. As long as it doesn't go inside of a human and you make more of this virus.

As long as we stop manufacturing Petri dishes which are people or schools or large groups of people, nursing homes where they're all infected, we've got this thing beat this time but please learn about if you can't see something, label it so that it glows in the dark or something. You can't even buy a pair of labeled gloves. Gloves that are labeled with virus. You should be giving those out. That way people say, "Here's a pair of viruses. A virus-labeled gloves from People's Capital Group." Then people see that. Imagine if we understood what faith is about. The impossible, the invisible, is have a little faith. You have faith in yourself. How come you have so much faith in yourself.

You're buying properties that rely on other people to pay you rent but you are looking after the asset and you also have Seth. You know what you need to is you make sure that your body is completely health. Make sure that Aaron is completely healthy. The two of you have to be each other's bodies, constantly looking after each other because you could, I kid you not, you could go on into your 100th year in life and you could be the next Warren Buffet. You never know.

Aaron: That is the plan. That is the plan, Dr. Gordon. That is where we're heading for but Warren Buffet, hopefully, I make some better investment decisions than him.

Gordon: I'll tell you this. We remember today's date, May 4th 2020. Because I did this interview with you and supported your group, I now have access to the next Warren Buffet. I know I have other investors. Basically, in my real estate, the 10 million, I just keep all of it myself. That's different. I've made 17% cash on cash year over year. It's very interesting. It's very interesting because we also manage it and we also do that. It's basically my family. I did it so I can pass along to my kids.

Aaron: With these tough times, you're still collecting rent, everything's working well, the property's there because you focused on those types of stores.

Gordon: I also borrowed. Don't forget, 10 million sounds like a great number. I want to be straightforward with everyone listening. I borrowed $7.5 million to be able to buy that. You wouldn't want something to blow up, right? That's why you have to be very careful and think about all parameters when you think about stuff. A lot of people don't think about their health. If you don't have your health, you have your family. If you don't have your health, you don't have your family because now you've burdened your family and you actually don't know what the person next to you will do to you if your health isn't there. Who wants to be around a sick person?

Have you checked? Have you asked them? They say in sickness and in health, right? You don't know.

Aaron: You never know. You never know till you test them. That's right. Maybe I'll give Dianne a test tonight. Just to test her.

Gordon: Don't test. Just do your best. Don't test. Do your best.

Aaron: I agree. That is the thing. Hopefully, we can practice these things and you'll flatten the curve. It is getting flat. There is good news out there. Less people are getting it. I know in Summit, where we live, the cases have stayed flat for four days which is the first time that's happened. It looks like we're at a point where hopefully, if we keep exercising, we're doing-- Keep your hands out of the Pringles jar. When you have the gloves on, do the gloves the right way. I think, maybe by summertime, get back to normal. What's your crystal ball tell you?

Gordon: I think that definitely, it's looking better. I'm feeling there's a lot of hope out there. As you know, because I have a three-year-old and a five-year-old, a few years ago, I started building my home school in Summit, Chatham, this area. Short Hills. My home school has continued. It hasn't had any hiccups because I already offlined myself from the world and I basically onlined myself relative to my family. By tutoring some other families that have issues with school and other things like that where they need to stay on track, I can keep myself busy. It's online and I do this type of thing.

My home school is relevant for my girls because I do that. I make investments around homeschooling and school in general. Not even home school. I invest in daycares. I invest in high school stuff. That allows things to keep going. When you say light at the end of the tunnel, it really is about what's between these two ears. If you can fix what's between this, there's no problems whatsoever. You know how I look at these couple months that a lot of people say they're stuck is imagine if it wasn't real and you're stuck but you're with your family. Make the most of it.

For the first time, you are boxed in to look at their homework, to look at what they're doing and you're myopically looking, not just superficially looking. You're myopic. That builds bonds. It's the best bonding experience ever. You're not even able to take road trips now. During the road trips, people staying in the back and do that. You're not even taking road trips. Now, you're just stuck in the same house. You know what? One of my predictions is we're about to enter into a boom in real estate. We're going to have such a big boom right where you're sitting.

We're going to have a big boom in Summit, in Short Hills, in Chatham, Westfield. Why? People who are in the city who had to go buy groceries without a car, ever tried doing that and carrying those toilet papers? They're thinking, "Wait a minute, the taxes are high," but there's New Jersey in the suburbs. You just mentioned that we're flattening the curve. They're not flattening the curve at the same rates, but then what doubles difficulty is more when you're in Manhattan, they might move to here and they might drive an increase in--What happens when there's not enough supply and there's more demand, right? Prices go up. Well, you could be looking at in a couple of months, people are actually are going to have a reboot in their view of suburb living.

Aaron: Sure. I was saying the same exact thing. Just the other day I said that, "I think placing our cards in suburban apartment buildings in North Jersey was a really good bet." We saw this and people wanting to move out of the city. I lived in Hoboken. My car got flooded twice. I paid $6,000 just to park my car and it took me 45 minutes sometimes to get out of the city and get to my next appointment. It was just such a frustrating place to live. I said if I wasn't here by two best friends having the time of my life, I would hate it. I moved out after two years. I'm not a city guy, but I don't know how people do the city. I mean, the Summit is as city as I ever want to get. I think people really are recognizing that living on top of each other in cities is not a safe way to live with these virus scares.

Gordon: Think about what happened now. You're stuck in your house, if you have more rooms to go to, instead of one or two rooms, it's better than three rooms, is better than two rooms and four rooms is better than three. Also, it's better to not just go to a room but to go into a different place where there's a different ambience. The way people decorate, the way people set up their places to have a backyard and have that type of stuff, that's all going to come into vogue because what if we get another virus. Remember, you heard it here, in the next 10 years, we're going to have another pandemic.

You want to plan accordingly. 10 years goes by fast and the virus remember in February, when we were alert, I don't know most people remember February anymore, but February, people are still thinking like, "No, this is never going to happen." It happens so quickly and suddenly we're all shut down in March and all that stuff. You think about how it hasn't been that long, but so much has changed. When you think about it in the city, when you were in Hoboken, could you get gas pretty easily, right? If you're getting gas, there might be a line there. If you go to the food store, guess what? The food store has more contamination and a highly populated area. They don't clean every package. Each night when they shut down they're wiping down every package, every can they're wiping down with pH 10 soap. You bet, right? No, it doesn't happen.

The more sick people infected go and shop at each grocery store, food stores, then when you go there, you have a chance of getting infected. Do you leave your groceries? Do you wear an extra pair of clothing before you go in? The list could go on and on of how much you have to protect yourself. Just watch I Am Legend and then you'll get an idea of what's going on with that kind of stuff. I'm telling you, you don't want to be going to high population densities is that-- Look what we're doing. We're social distancing. What if you didn't have distance to social distance, right? Could you imagine that? We're living on top of each other.

Look at all the breakouts like Italy and places like that and India, for example. Right now, India's living conditions is not the United States. The biggest fear that we have to deal with is after we correct this in the United States, what about the countries that don't have the conditions, the economies that the United States, United Kingdom, Europe, China even, what about countries that don't even have that? What about India that is very populated? Now, what are we going to do? Not let them in? That's the question. How about you, we should ask you, after we fix this problem, should we let people still in from countries that have infections? What do you think?

Aaron: Well, I mean, we have to figure out how to test for this quickly. You were saying the thing with the H1N1 is you could figure out in 60 seconds. Do they have it or not?

Gordon: Less than 60 seconds. You just have to check. It was so fast. That's how we control this. Say we know with this, we're now pushing the limits of who is playing God, but do we have the right of do you die or do you die? The problem is we have doctors and nurses and making those decisions because we didn't give them the setup. The setup was, we were set up just like we don't have the setup, we were set up by something that we weren't able to see. People always saying things like, "Why would you think that we would have another one?" Look-- [crosstalk]

Aaron: I agree 100% we're definitely going to have another in the next 10 years.

Gordon: Would you like another one?

Aaron: No. Not at all. This is terrible. As a Christian man, it's terrible just to see all the death. I can't even watch the news. You know I tell Dianne here, it's really anything more than a couple minutes in the day it's too much. You just-- [crostalk]

Gordon: You know Yersinia pestis? It was a flea actually vomiting because there was a volcanic ash. It was too cold so the fleas are vomiting. Back after they bite you, they vomited back in and they transfer this thing called Yersinia pestis and it led to this whole plague. This was a bacterial infection. We constantly have these breakouts, right? As a human species, there's more and more of us and it's just not safe. People think it's safe to live on this planet. It's actually not safe, but you can be smart enough to live safe. You just have to be proper. It's like if you don't have certain mindsets, you can get yourself really into trouble.

Aaron: Absolutely. I think that business is changing now the way we do business, the types of investments that you should be making are changing.

Gordon: I have a question for you Aaron. What is going to happen to the department stores?

Aaron: I've been saying that for years. I mean, with Amazon and online shopping, I've been saying for years.

Gordon: What will the pandemic do to the department stores like Macy's and stuff like that? What will it do?

Aaron: Man, Macy's has been shutting its doors for years. I love Macy's and there's nothing like going to a clothes store and trying on clothes. I don't think they're going to close, all stores that sell apparel like that. I do think that's a bad investment long term. It's been a bad investment.

Gordon: What if you're a brand and you now need to go into Macy's to feature your brand, to the mommy's in Summit, in Short Hills and things like that, then they go there, the Short Hills moms and you don't have departments stores. How are you supposed to let people know about your brand?

Aaron: Well, I think online marketing is going to be a big thing. Using celebrities to advertise your products.

Gordon: Celebrities like you, you're a celebrity.

Aaron: Like me. Absolutely.

Gordon: That's right. People should come to your show and get the word out because-- This is what I wanted to share is anybody don't underestimate what a person can become. Like I said tonight, he could be the next Warren Buffett. I'm certainly not going to leave any stone unturned, I'm serious about this, straight face and everything is that we are going to come into some very difficult times in the future at department stores, we know airlines, we know we have some very major changes that are coming after COVID-19.

What we have to do is we have to be open minded to anybody because you never know what somebody could know that may actually send enough business your way to build your business. I think this actually helps world peace and discrimination issues.

Aaron: Yes. I love that we're all coming together a little bit. I think the world was more bipartisan before this. We kind of needed a disaster or a common enemy to all get behind and look at. If there's another silver lining that's it as well that we are coming together and exercising society do the right things. It is making a difference. It is changing that curve, we see that. All right Dr. Gordon, it's nine o'clock at night here. I know we had you for 90 minutes here this amazing podcast and hopefully we'll get as many hits as the Joe Rogan podcast. We'll see. We've learned some great tips from you tonight from having the right mentor, to real estate tips such as investing in shopping centers for food, food shopping centers, pharmacy. We're going to look into that actually as well. I was talking to Seth about that.

Gordon: This is why I don't like to go on these shows because what happens I give away my idea now I got to compete with you, right? [laughs]

Aaron: Oh my gosh.

Gordon: I have to do that too. Because people think like what happens if we help too many people now we can't help ourself, that's total baloney, you know?

Aaron: Yes. We're an open book here. Put the information out there, that's the name of the game. I'm glad you come out here today.

Gordon: Thank you for having me.

Aaron: Thank you your information. Thank you for your service what you do with being a scientist. Hopefully we can come up with some amazing patent there to improve what's going on right now or even some cool ideas with clothes that clean themselves. I'm looking forward to that inventions. You let me know when you have that one ready.[laughs]

Gordon: I'm retired Aaron. I'm just a regular old guy.

Aaron: That's right. Sure. You have a secret little laboratory over there. I know you're creating something amazing. All right. Absolutely. Enjoy your night. Have a good one. Bye-bye.

Gordon: Bye-bye.

Aaron: Thank you.

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